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	<title>Comments on: On Emotional Violence</title>
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	<description>Spiritual Guidance by Word, Card, and Star</description>
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		<title>By: Sonja</title>
		<link>http://druidjournal.net/2008/12/02/on-emotional-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-122061</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://druidjournal.net/?p=626#comment-122061</guid>
		<description>Emotional violence....a subject I will climb onto my soap box for, but this is not the place to do so.

For years I was in a marriage that was controlled by physical and emotional violence.  It was a hard hard place to be in.  Yes for a time you allow stuff like that to happen, but the you wake up, you realize you have a voice, a brain and you are allowed to have an opinion.........when I realized that I mattered and that my opinion counted for something and that I refused to be spoken to in a derogatory manner, the physical violence increase because he realized that he was losing control over me.  And That&#039;s what violence of any kind is all about....CONTROL.   

For the first few years I thought he was right, that I was doing something wrong and that the beatings and the verbal abuse were my fault and that I deserved it,  but being analytical by nature I took a long hard look at &quot;why I had deserved&quot; beatings and verbal abuse and it took working for a psychiatrist to help me see clearly....that it was HIS way of wanting to control me and the family.

It took 16.5 for me to be strong enough to break the cycle.  I will not allow any type of violence in my home ( there is enough of that in the world already), if anyone wants to argue, they can go outside.

Unless you have been through it, you cannot really understand, it&#039;s OK to say get out of the situation, but it&#039;s always easier said than done.

I cannot comprehend how a person can be so cruel to another.  Through those years I have learnt a LOT.  My daughters have also learnt so much by having been witness to my treatment, my son&#039;s will not follow their father&#039;s footstep.  So through all this there is something positive!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emotional violence&#8230;.a subject I will climb onto my soap box for, but this is not the place to do so.</p>
<p>For years I was in a marriage that was controlled by physical and emotional violence.  It was a hard hard place to be in.  Yes for a time you allow stuff like that to happen, but the you wake up, you realize you have a voice, a brain and you are allowed to have an opinion&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;when I realized that I mattered and that my opinion counted for something and that I refused to be spoken to in a derogatory manner, the physical violence increase because he realized that he was losing control over me.  And That&#8217;s what violence of any kind is all about&#8230;.CONTROL.   </p>
<p>For the first few years I thought he was right, that I was doing something wrong and that the beatings and the verbal abuse were my fault and that I deserved it,  but being analytical by nature I took a long hard look at &#8220;why I had deserved&#8221; beatings and verbal abuse and it took working for a psychiatrist to help me see clearly&#8230;.that it was HIS way of wanting to control me and the family.</p>
<p>It took 16.5 for me to be strong enough to break the cycle.  I will not allow any type of violence in my home ( there is enough of that in the world already), if anyone wants to argue, they can go outside.</p>
<p>Unless you have been through it, you cannot really understand, it&#8217;s OK to say get out of the situation, but it&#8217;s always easier said than done.</p>
<p>I cannot comprehend how a person can be so cruel to another.  Through those years I have learnt a LOT.  My daughters have also learnt so much by having been witness to my treatment, my son&#8217;s will not follow their father&#8217;s footstep.  So through all this there is something positive!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Lilly</title>
		<link>http://druidjournal.net/2008/12/02/on-emotional-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-121993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Lilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://druidjournal.net/?p=626#comment-121993</guid>
		<description>Ali -- well said!  I (basically) agree.

I think you may have read that paragraph out of context.  Immediately after it, I suggested not that Frank&#039;s situation be approached with detachment, but by engaging in a different way -- by offering Frank &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; gifts and guidance that he can freely accept, gifts and guidance that will hopefully allow Frank to grow in self-esteem or whatever other things he needs, so that eventually he CAN freely take the help he needs to escape emotional abuse.  And this may take years.

So, yes -- compassion and assistance of any and every kind is called for.  What I&#039;m saying should be avoided is &lt;i&gt;deliberately manipulating&lt;/i&gt; Frank to stand up for himself.  Examples of deliberate manipulation would be saying things like, &quot;How can you let her say that to you?  How can you let him treat you that way?&quot;  This replaces one kind of guilt-trip with another!  Believe me -- I&#039;ve experienced it many times.  It seems to me much preferable to help Frank develop greater self-esteem and self-regard by, for example, encouraging the growth of friendships and interests outside of the abusive relationship, so that Frank can experience healthy relationships and, in time, realize that the abusive relationship is Wrong, and call for help.  

Frank may even eventually &lt;i&gt;ask&lt;/i&gt; to be emotionally manipulated...  Many of my own prayers take that form.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ali &#8212; well said!  I (basically) agree.</p>
<p>I think you may have read that paragraph out of context.  Immediately after it, I suggested not that Frank&#8217;s situation be approached with detachment, but by engaging in a different way &#8212; by offering Frank <i>different</i> gifts and guidance that he can freely accept, gifts and guidance that will hopefully allow Frank to grow in self-esteem or whatever other things he needs, so that eventually he CAN freely take the help he needs to escape emotional abuse.  And this may take years.</p>
<p>So, yes &#8212; compassion and assistance of any and every kind is called for.  What I&#8217;m saying should be avoided is <i>deliberately manipulating</i> Frank to stand up for himself.  Examples of deliberate manipulation would be saying things like, &#8220;How can you let her say that to you?  How can you let him treat you that way?&#8221;  This replaces one kind of guilt-trip with another!  Believe me &#8212; I&#8217;ve experienced it many times.  It seems to me much preferable to help Frank develop greater self-esteem and self-regard by, for example, encouraging the growth of friendships and interests outside of the abusive relationship, so that Frank can experience healthy relationships and, in time, realize that the abusive relationship is Wrong, and call for help.  </p>
<p>Frank may even eventually <i>ask</i> to be emotionally manipulated&#8230;  Many of my own prayers take that form.  <img src='http://druidjournal.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://druidjournal.net/2008/12/02/on-emotional-violence/comment-page-1/#comment-121960</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://druidjournal.net/?p=626#comment-121960</guid>
		<description>I only very quickly scanned this (and intend to come back and read more thoroughly later) but I found myself having major problems with this one passage:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;For example, if Frank is browbeaten by his father for smashing up the family car, and Frank feels like he deserves the guilt and shame his father is serving up to him, then attempting to cheer him up or teach him self-defense techniques is at best a waste of time, and at worst emotional violence.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This might be very wise and noble in theory, but in practice it can be cruel. Speaking as someone who suffered from continuous emotional abuse as a child, I know that a person who has experienced &quot;browbeating&quot; and other forms of emotional manipulation for a long period of time (especially when it comes from a parent) may have difficult and ambivalent feelings about &quot;what they deserve.&quot; To wash your hands of a person in such a situation and proclaim that you can&#039;t help them because they don&#039;t want to be helped is irresponsible at best. It can be viewed, by the victim of abuse, as a kind of abandonment, even a silent sanction of the abuse that&#039;s occurring, which only helps to reinforce the belief that such abuse really &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; deserved.

To use another example--what about a person in an abusive spousal relationship? It&#039;s so common to hear people &quot;blame the victim&quot; and declare that, if a woman (or man) is being abused by her spouse, why doesn&#039;t she just leave? And if she doesn&#039;t leave, well, some part of her must &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; the abuse, right? But that argument is, in my opinion, complete bullshit. Most counselors of abuse victims know that the situation is much more complicated than that, and when it comes to emotional violence by parents or other family members (when the &quot;choice to leave&quot; can seem almost as impossible as leaving one&#039;s own DNA behind), it&#039;s downright cruel to suggest that victims of emotional violence cannot be helped or shown kindness and &quot;cheering up&quot; because they allow themselves to suffer. That&#039;s a circuitous argument that only serves to exacerbate the suffering, condemning the victim of violence to more violence and even less likelihood that they&#039;ll develop the strength and support to resist it. In such a situation, it&#039;s no wonder that people try to convince themselves that they &quot;really deserve it,&quot; as no other explanation for the continuing violence (taking place right in front of others who sit back and allow it) seems to make any sense. Without the support of people with the strength of conviction to reject such violence as undeserved &lt;i&gt;no matter what&lt;/i&gt;, this might be someone&#039;s only viable method of coping. Victims of long-term emotional violence would rather believe they deserve it, than believe that everyone around them is really so apathetic and cruel. But I, for one, would rather &quot;waste my time&quot; trying to help a person suffering from such violence than justify my own inaction and allow another person to go through what I had to experience. Sometimes, we &lt;i&gt;need&lt;/i&gt; other people to assert our worth as a human being when our own sense of self-worth has been so corroded and compromised.

I think, in both this and your discussion of physical violence, the main flaw of your argument is that you assume that there are occasions when the only form of action is a form of violence, and therefore inaction (or emotional apathy/indifference/detachment) is the only appropriate response. I prefer to believe that there is &lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt; a positive, creative, loving act that we can pursue to engage other people as unique and free individuals, without either resorting to the violence of force or the violence of indifference. It may be difficult to pursue such loving acts (not least because they require responsiveness, creativity and courage from us), and pursuing such acts doesn&#039;t always guarantee that others will respond the way we hope. But that doesn&#039;t excuse us from trying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only very quickly scanned this (and intend to come back and read more thoroughly later) but I found myself having major problems with this one passage:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;For example, if Frank is browbeaten by his father for smashing up the family car, and Frank feels like he deserves the guilt and shame his father is serving up to him, then attempting to cheer him up or teach him self-defense techniques is at best a waste of time, and at worst emotional violence.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This might be very wise and noble in theory, but in practice it can be cruel. Speaking as someone who suffered from continuous emotional abuse as a child, I know that a person who has experienced &#8220;browbeating&#8221; and other forms of emotional manipulation for a long period of time (especially when it comes from a parent) may have difficult and ambivalent feelings about &#8220;what they deserve.&#8221; To wash your hands of a person in such a situation and proclaim that you can&#8217;t help them because they don&#8217;t want to be helped is irresponsible at best. It can be viewed, by the victim of abuse, as a kind of abandonment, even a silent sanction of the abuse that&#8217;s occurring, which only helps to reinforce the belief that such abuse really <i>is</i> deserved.</p>
<p>To use another example&#8211;what about a person in an abusive spousal relationship? It&#8217;s so common to hear people &#8220;blame the victim&#8221; and declare that, if a woman (or man) is being abused by her spouse, why doesn&#8217;t she just leave? And if she doesn&#8217;t leave, well, some part of her must <i>want</i> the abuse, right? But that argument is, in my opinion, complete bullshit. Most counselors of abuse victims know that the situation is much more complicated than that, and when it comes to emotional violence by parents or other family members (when the &#8220;choice to leave&#8221; can seem almost as impossible as leaving one&#8217;s own DNA behind), it&#8217;s downright cruel to suggest that victims of emotional violence cannot be helped or shown kindness and &#8220;cheering up&#8221; because they allow themselves to suffer. That&#8217;s a circuitous argument that only serves to exacerbate the suffering, condemning the victim of violence to more violence and even less likelihood that they&#8217;ll develop the strength and support to resist it. In such a situation, it&#8217;s no wonder that people try to convince themselves that they &#8220;really deserve it,&#8221; as no other explanation for the continuing violence (taking place right in front of others who sit back and allow it) seems to make any sense. Without the support of people with the strength of conviction to reject such violence as undeserved <i>no matter what</i>, this might be someone&#8217;s only viable method of coping. Victims of long-term emotional violence would rather believe they deserve it, than believe that everyone around them is really so apathetic and cruel. But I, for one, would rather &#8220;waste my time&#8221; trying to help a person suffering from such violence than justify my own inaction and allow another person to go through what I had to experience. Sometimes, we <i>need</i> other people to assert our worth as a human being when our own sense of self-worth has been so corroded and compromised.</p>
<p>I think, in both this and your discussion of physical violence, the main flaw of your argument is that you assume that there are occasions when the only form of action is a form of violence, and therefore inaction (or emotional apathy/indifference/detachment) is the only appropriate response. I prefer to believe that there is <i>always</i> a positive, creative, loving act that we can pursue to engage other people as unique and free individuals, without either resorting to the violence of force or the violence of indifference. It may be difficult to pursue such loving acts (not least because they require responsiveness, creativity and courage from us), and pursuing such acts doesn&#8217;t always guarantee that others will respond the way we hope. But that doesn&#8217;t excuse us from trying.</p>
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