Comments on: We The People http://druidjournal.net/2008/11/21/we-the-people/ Spiritual Guidance by Word, Card, and Star Mon, 14 May 2012 06:53:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Druid Journal - Survey: What Do You Want? http://druidjournal.net/2008/11/21/we-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-284152 Druid Journal - Survey: What Do You Want? Sun, 20 Feb 2011 01:48:22 +0000 http://druidjournal.net/?p=603#comment-284152 [...] good), phonosemantics, choosing your religion, tossing your television, the Law of Attraction and the laws of humanity, the purpose of the universe and the best way to make a buck, children and gods, the Tao and [...] [...] good), phonosemantics, choosing your religion, tossing your television, the Law of Attraction and the laws of humanity, the purpose of the universe and the best way to make a buck, children and gods, the Tao and [...]

]]> By: Jeff Lilly http://druidjournal.net/2008/11/21/we-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-120531 Jeff Lilly Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:18:17 +0000 http://druidjournal.net/?p=603#comment-120531 Erik, it sounds like you're worried that there will only be police protection for the rich; you seem to be saying that without public police forces, only the people who can afford police will have them. There's no reason to expect that, however. Most likely a police force (or multiple police forces) would be advertising at you, vying for your business -- a monthly subscription, most likely. The officers you subscribe to will treat you very well, knowing that if they don't, you'll take your business elsewhere. And they will happily protect you from vandalism, assault, and whatever else you're willing to pay for. Since there will be competition, the quality and cost of this service will be much lower than what you currently pay in taxes. It is true that the destitute will not be able to pay for police protection, and will rely on charity. This is no different from the current situation, though -- it's currently the charity of the state, instead of the charity of private individuals. That's just my opinion, though... There are plenty of libertarians who think that the private police forces are one of the things governments just HAVE to do; otherwise they would simply descend into turf wars and protection rackets, like gangsters of Chicago. A great article that addresses this issue is <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long11.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. I'm sorry you went and dug up what happened to those police officers! I hoped you wouldn't bother... :-) I strongly suspected that their 'punishment' would be light and mostly symbolic, and I think I was right. We'll have to see if anything changes. But I bet if that had been a private service, the officers would have been summarily sacked, and UFCP would have been offered free protection for a year. They wouldn't want to lose a valuable customer... :-) Erik, it sounds like you’re worried that there will only be police protection for the rich; you seem to be saying that without public police forces, only the people who can afford police will have them. There’s no reason to expect that, however. Most likely a police force (or multiple police forces) would be advertising at you, vying for your business — a monthly subscription, most likely. The officers you subscribe to will treat you very well, knowing that if they don’t, you’ll take your business elsewhere. And they will happily protect you from vandalism, assault, and whatever else you’re willing to pay for. Since there will be competition, the quality and cost of this service will be much lower than what you currently pay in taxes.

It is true that the destitute will not be able to pay for police protection, and will rely on charity. This is no different from the current situation, though — it’s currently the charity of the state, instead of the charity of private individuals.

That’s just my opinion, though… There are plenty of libertarians who think that the private police forces are one of the things governments just HAVE to do; otherwise they would simply descend into turf wars and protection rackets, like gangsters of Chicago. A great article that addresses this issue is here.

I’m sorry you went and dug up what happened to those police officers! I hoped you wouldn’t bother… :-) I strongly suspected that their ‘punishment’ would be light and mostly symbolic, and I think I was right. We’ll have to see if anything changes. But I bet if that had been a private service, the officers would have been summarily sacked, and UFCP would have been offered free protection for a year. They wouldn’t want to lose a valuable customer… :-)

]]> By: Erik http://druidjournal.net/2008/11/21/we-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-120481 Erik Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:38:21 +0000 http://druidjournal.net/?p=603#comment-120481 <i>without a government, it would be impossible to make someone’s religion illegal.</i> There would still be government, but without the federal system it would all be local. <i>Are you suggesting that without a government, many of your neighbors would descend on your house with guns and pitchforks?</i> Probably not, although I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility; I'd be more concerned about relatively quiet harrasment (vandalism, possibly assault) with no possibility of remedy. That kind of thing still happens here in America even with the legal protections we have in place - it certainly would not be made better with those protections removed. Things may be different up where you live, but I'm in the South; and even in North Carolina we're not *that* far removed from the days of lynchings and vigilante justice. <i>are you suggesting that without government police, the private police forces would wreak havoc?</i> I'm saying that private police are beholden only to those who pay them. <i>re you sure it’s working as well as it should?</i> Hell no! <i>What happened to those officers?</i> After wading through pages of Internatter I finally found articles from a couple of actual news sources that said the officers were placed on administrative leave following the incident. What happened after that, I don't know. (Also, and this could actually be stretched a bit to support my position :) , those were campus police; they are not quite private police, but not quite public either - although as the UFCP website describes it, they sound closer to public police than most campus police organizations). without a government, it would be impossible to make someone’s religion illegal.

There would still be government, but without the federal system it would all be local.

Are you suggesting that without a government, many of your neighbors would descend on your house with guns and pitchforks?

Probably not, although I suppose it’s not outside the realm of possibility; I’d be more concerned about relatively quiet harrasment (vandalism, possibly assault) with no possibility of remedy. That kind of thing still happens here in America even with the legal protections we have in place – it certainly would not be made better with those protections removed. Things may be different up where you live, but I’m in the South; and even in North Carolina we’re not *that* far removed from the days of lynchings and vigilante justice.

are you suggesting that without government police, the private police forces would wreak havoc?

I’m saying that private police are beholden only to those who pay them.

re you sure it’s working as well as it should?
Hell no!

What happened to those officers?

After wading through pages of Internatter I finally found articles from a couple of actual news sources that said the officers were placed on administrative leave following the incident. What happened after that, I don’t know. (Also, and this could actually be stretched a bit to support my position :) , those were campus police; they are not quite private police, but not quite public either – although as the UFCP website describes it, they sound closer to public police than most campus police organizations).

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